ADVAITA DIALOGUE Continued from
Page 4
801.
S: My praNAms to
those seers who saw all this.!
802.
G: Let us get on
with our analogies. Water in
mirage and Silver in mother of pearl are both of one kind.
803.
S: In both cases
the appearance is well-known and repetitive. In both cases there is no medium
involved.
804.
G: But in the
case of the reflection in a mirror the mirror happens to be the medium.
805.
S: Am I allowed
to do some more analysis of these analogies?
806.
G: Go ahead.
807.
S: Rope appears
as a snake. Better lighting shows it as only rope.
808.
G: So also Brahman
appears as the universe. A Guru gives
the better light by pointing out the Truth.
809.
S: OK. After you
have told me the Truth and I have understood it, still I see only the universe,
not Brahman.
Why?
810.
G: To see this
you have to go to the analogy of the water in the mirage or the silver in
mother-of-pearl.
811.
S: I see. In both cases even
after knowing the Truth, the same wrong appearance stares me in the face.
812.
G: But even here
there is an objection. You can’t use either the water in the mirage or the
silver in the mother-of-pearl.
813.
S: You mean the
water will not quench my thirst and the silver will not get me any money?
814.
G: Yes. But the
water in the universe quenches my thirst. And the silver in the universe gets
me money.
815.
S: Well, that
means the analogies are not perfect.
816.
G: In fact there
is no perfect analogy. Still let us continue our study. Now go to the dream
analogy.
817.
S: What about it?
818.
G: In the dream,
there is (dream) water which will quench your (dream) thirst.
819.
S: I think I am
missing something.
820.
G: If the
universe, which is only an appearance, satisfies many of your needs, the dream
also is of the same kind. Whatever thirst you have within the dream, there is
water in the dream that quenches your thirst. The silver in the dream gets you
money in the dream. So the dream analogy is a fairly close analogy to the
reality or unreality of the world-appearance.
821.
S: Is it why
there is so much talk about the operational world being just a dream from an
absolute point of view?
822.
G: You said it
right. From the absolute point of view.
823.
S: Are there
other features of the dream analogy?
824.
G: There is
something unique. That the dream is not real dawns on us when we wake up from
the dream. The dreamer, when he dreams, takes it to be totally real. There is
no guru coming in the dream and telling you that it is all only a dream and
that you should better wake up from the dream into the outside world. On the
other hand, in
the operational world of reality, though we take the universe to be real and
existing. we have our guru telling us that this is a
dream from the absolute point of view and we have to wake up from this ‘dream’
of a world! He himself lives beyond the ‘dream-of-the-world’ stage, yet he comes
‘down’ from his absolute level into our ‘dream’ and talks to us in this
‘dream’ of ours about the Truth that is beyond this ‘dream’! Without the dream
analogy in our culture, it would be almost impossible to comprehend the Guru’s
teaching that the Truth is beyond this visible operational world of reality!
825.
S: Fantastic!
There is so much about the dream analogy!
826.
G: Now we are
ready to go to the mahAvAkyas.
827.
S: Are we taking
them up one by one?
828.
G: No. I am going
to discuss only one of them. “tat tvam asi”.
829.
S: I have heard
this comes in Chandogya Upanishad and belongs to Sama Veda.
830.
G: Right. ‘That
Thou art’ is
the meaning.
831.
S: Do I take it
that we are going to establish this by reasoning?
832.
G: No. This
declaration is not an objective fact or experience that can be inferred from
other knowledge or reasoning.
833.
S: Is it then an
intuitive experience?
834.
G: That is what
our elders say.
835.
S: Who is the
‘Thou’ in the mahAvAkya?
I see the word ‘That’ represents Brahman.
836.
G: ‘Thou’ is the inherent
substratum in every one of us without which we just don’t exist.
837.
S: Then it is our
inner Self, the Atman.
838.
G: But here it
appears to have been given an individuality of its own, since ‘Thou’ is being
addressed.
839.
S: This
individual ‘thou’ being identified with the unqualified infinite Brahman
is rather perplexing.
840.
G: It is not the identification of a
finite something with the infinite Brahman. Whenever a person A seen now is
identified with a person B seen long ago, we are not saying that the external features,
like names, dresses, mannerisms, and various temporary identification
characteristics of A and B are the same. We are only saying that the essential
persons behind the two are the same. So also, discarding the temporary
characteristics of both ‘thou’ and ‘that’, we try to look only at the
essentialness in both. The ignorance (avidyA) associated with ‘Thou’ is the temporary
characteristic of ‘Thou’. The feature of being the cause (mAyA) of the universe is the temporary
characteristic of ‘That’. The essential commonality arises by looking at ‘Thou’
minus its ‘avidyA’
and at ‘That’ (=Brahman)
minus its ‘mAyA’.
841.
S: In other words
Thou minus avidyA
is the same as That minus mAyA.!
842.
G:The temporary characteristics that we discard in favour of the essentials are called ‘taTastha-lakshhaNas’.
843.
S: And the
essential ones?
844.
G: They are
called ‘svarUpa-lakshhaNas’.
Those of the Supreme are: Existence, Knowledge and Bliss.
845.
S: What does the
understanding of these and the mahAvAkyas do? Is understanding
enough?
846.
G: Neither is it
enough nor is it easy. You have to have Guru’s Grace for it. And then you have to live it.
847.
S: In what way?
848.
G: By seeing God
everywhere. You must be able to see the wood and not the elephant in the wooden
elephant.
849.
S: But the
elephant is there!
850.
G: Certainly.
When you play with a child, yes. But
when you are with yourself, the elephant is a burden.
851.
S: But I am told
that so long as there is the ego in me I cannot have this divine perception; is
that right?
852.
G: Yes, we are
all born with certain vAsanAs carried from our past lives.
853.
S: These vAsanAs
are in our mind only.
854.
G: But mind is
nothing but thought-flow into several channels according to the strength of our
vAsanAs.
855.
S: Some of the
channels must be good and some of them must be bad.
856.
G: Our ancients
have classified two of them to be good and thirteen to be bad.
857.
S: What are the
two good ones?
858.
G: ShraddhA
and Bhakti.
ShraddhA
is Faith in the divine content of
859.
S: And of course Bhakti
is Dedication and Devotion to that divine content.
860.
G: But because of
our bad vAsanAs
the thoughts usually tend to flow into one or more of the thirteen channels.
861.
S: What are the
thirteen? I guess
one of them is the ego.
862.
G: Actually it is
the most important. It is the captain of the gang of thirteen.
863.
S: And the other
twelve of the gang are ...
864.
G: Can’t you
guess?
865.
S: I have heard
about KAma,
Krodha, Lobha, Moha, Mada and MAtsarya.
866.
G: Yes. Lust or
Desire, Anger, Greed, Delusion, Arrogance and Jealousy. These are well-known.
867.
S: What are the
other six?
868.
G: rAga, dveshha,
IrshhyA, asUyA, dambha and garva.
869.
S: rAga is
Attachment and dveshha
is Hate. What do the others denote?
870.
G: IrshhyA
is the uncomfortable awkward feeling that ‘all these miseries are happening
only to me!’
871.
S: The word ‘asUyA’ –
is it not the same thing as mAtsarya?
872.
G: No. asUyA is
what downplays
the legitimate positives of the other person, and enjoys that downplaying.
873.
S: But then what
is jealousy,
mAtsarya?
874.
G: It simply
cannot brook the rise of the other person.
875.
S: Then there is garva,
which is pride. But I am not so clear about dambha.
876.
G: It is show of
importance and projection of oneself by assuming an explicit credit role even when it is
not due.
877.
S: What is the
role of Ego in all this?
878.
G: It is always
in the background but is the motivator and agent of every thought-flow of the mind.
879.
S: Well, that does’nt seem to be terrifically wrong.
880.
G: It is wrong
because it is what makes you think you are the doer of everything.
881.
S: But I have
been advised by you to have the attitude of ‘I am not the doer’ and ‘I am not
the experiencer’.
882.
G: It is Ego that
prevents you from cultivating that attitude.
883.
S: In what way?
884.
G: Ego claims
every thought. It is itself actually a superimposition by our
Ignorance (avidyA)
on the Self within.
885.
S: Is this what
they call ‘adhyAsa’?
886.
G: There are
actually two kinds of this superimposition.
887.
S: Two kinds?
888.
G: An attachment
to the BMI and an attachment to everything one calls mine.
889.
S: The first is
the thinking of the Ego: ‘I am the BMI’; and the second makes it say: ‘This is mine’.
890.
G: The first is ‘tAdAtmya-adhyAsa’
and the second is ‘samsarga adhyAsa’.
891.
S: Both kinds of adhyAsa
have to be eradicated, I would suppose.
892.
G: Yes, for this
eradication, an internal war has to be waged through spiritual disciplines.
893.
S: Are you
referring to disciplines like ‘yoga’?
894.
G: I am referring to what is
called ‘yoga-sAdhanA’
which means ‘control of the senses by spiritual regimen’.
895.
S: Does
Meditation come under this? You remember we postponed this discussion earlier.
896.
G: Yes, dhyAna
(Meditation) is the internal face of this yoga-sAdhanA.
897.
S: What is the
external face?
898.
G: It is tapas, consisting of
austerity of speech, of body and of mind.
899.
S: I remember to
have seen them defined by
900.
G: Meditation is
the art of stilling the mind so that it is motionless like a lamp placed in a
windless spot.
901.
S: Every time I
try it I fail miserably.
902.
G: Meditation to
be successful has to have a parallel life-long ethical preparation called yama and niyama.
903.
S: Are these not
moral codes of conduct and of spiritual observances?
904.
G: Yes, like
non–violence, truth, non-stealing, purity, contentment, absence of desire to
possess, etc.
905.
S: I am told, when the mind stays still, in that silence and peace,
the Light of the Self shows up.
906.
G: That is only a
way of saying. What happens is: The mind rests in the Atman.
907.
S: So there is
nothing to see?
908.
G: It is the
unusual feat of the Atman ‘watching’ itself, as it were. It is the
natural state of equilibrium and bliss.
909.
S: When described
like this it seems not difficult.
910.
G: Don’t think
so. Because the vibrations of the mind have to be controlled, monitored and
anchored to one spot.
911.
S: It certainly is a slow process.
912.
G: Yes,
913.
S: But what about
the flow of thoughts that must be going on?
914.
G: Just watch the
thoughts. Do not probe into the question how or why that thought came. Do not
analyse the positives and negatives of the subject matter of the thought lest
that process generate
new thoughts. Don’t get into this chain reaction of thoughts. Don’t also try to make a mental note of all the thoughts
that pass through your mind now. Just
watch the thoughts come and go. Just be a watcher.
Don’t get attached to any of the thoughts. Don’t take possession of the
thoughts. That is where you fall as the prey of the ego. Don’t ever get into
the content of any of the thoughts. Just keep watching. Think not that you are watching. Just be. One
by one thoughts will come and also disappear like waves which rise and then
fall. One thought after another, it will
keep coming ... and going. The next thought may delay a bit to appear. Don’t
expect it when
it delays. Don’t be ready to recognise it when it comes. Automatically the thoughts will become more
and more feeble. Don’t think about anything. Stop
thinking.
915.
S: Thank you, Guruji, you have given me a blow by blow recipe of what I
should practise.
916.
G: But not to
think about anything is, however, not a mechanical process.
917.
S: Then what do we do?
918.
G: Go over in the
mind the meaning of a mahAvAkya or a spiritual statement by seers like
Ramana.
919.
S: You mean,
repetition of a
mantra?
920.
G: No. In fact
when you sit for meditation you might perhaps have started with a japa of
a mantra.
921.
S: That is very
straightforward.
922.
G: Then continue
that japa
until it becomes
a silent japa,
with the involvement of the total personality, heart and soul.
923.
S: Should we stop
the counting, now?
924.
G: Nothing should
be done as a stepwise effort. Each stage should slip into the next stage
smoothly.
925.
S: Even the
stopping of counting?
926.
G: Yes. Gradually
the japa
itself becomes a nididhyAsanA
– contemplation on the spiritual truths.
927.
S: Does nididhyAsana
have to be only on the mahAvAkyas? Can we not take some simple truths
for contemplation?.
928.
G: ‘But for fire things cannot
burn; But for the Consciousness within, can
inert mind be sentient?’. Even this will do.
929.
S: Is this how we
are expected to be convinced of the Upanishadic truths of non-duality?
930.
G: For the
understanding of the Upanishadic truths, there is nothing like nididhyAsana.
931.
S: I never
realised that meditation could involve such contemplation.
932.
G: Slowly the nididhyasana
will come to be done without any effort or thought, with the mind resting in the Atman.
933.
S: But I have
heard it said that the culmination of meditation is samAdhi.
934.
G: Don’t worry
about it. When your mind is still, you are already enjoying the bliss of the Atman.
935.
S: Where does
this bliss come from?
936.
G: It comes from
the Infinite reservoir of Bliss which is the Atman.
937.
S: This is the
Bliss that great seers like Ramana talk about?
938.
G: For such sages
like Ramana or a Sadashiva-Brahmendra, they are naturally in that state ever.
939.
S: Great souls!
940.
G: They are
called jIvan-muktas -- (Liberated even
while living).
941.
S: So advaita
envisages liberation even before the demise of the body?
942.
G: It does. That
is one of the distinguishing marks of advaita.
943.
S: But then by
what reason do such people also suffer?
944.
G: That is
because of the remnant of prArabdha that is yet to be experienced.
945.
S: But I thought jIvan-muktas
have no experience that
the BMI usually has.
946.
G: You are right.
Whatever experience they seem to go through is only by their BMI.
947.
S: Oh Yes, they
must be already in identification with their Inner Self.
948.
G: So in that
sense they may be said to have no experience of prArabdha.
949.
S: What about
their experience of this universe?
950.
G: For them what
they see is all Brahman.
They see the screen, not the movie!
951.
S: But Sages like
Ramana have talked to individuals in their individual capacity.
952.
G: This only
means that if they want, they can hold back their Brahma-bhAva and descend down to
our plane.
953.
S: What is this Brahma-bhAva
(being in Brahman)?
954.
G: I can tell you
only what such sages have said about it.
“It is a divine perception of equanimity – an equanimous view of every
being in the world as the same self as the one that dwells in them. It is a
blissful experience, called Brahma-Ananda. Therein there is no more knowledge,
no more ignorance, no perceiver, nothing perceived, no perception. It is
something devoid of the triple – knower, knowledge and the known. Such
enlightened persons do not see this world, they do not see anything. All they
see is the godliness of Infinite Love and the loveliness of Omnipresent God. In
their world, there is no self, no non-self; everywhere
only grace and love. They have no limitations of time, none of action, no
merit, no demerit, no happiness, no sorrow, no
darkness. It is a permanent unalloyed illumination. It is the massive Light of
Consciousness. No up, no down, no high, no low, no peak, no valley. It is a
state transcending all speech and thought.” – Quote from a lecture by Shri
Kripananda Varrier, in Tamil.
955.
S: Oh God, what an elevating
experience just to hear about it!
956.
G: Now let us
come down to terra firma and start winding up.
957.
S: One loose end still. You have
not said anything about those two good channels: ShraddhA and Bhakti.
958.
G. Thanks for
reminding me. Without these two channels of the mind, none could hope to rise
spiritually.
959.
S: But all the
while we have been talking only of the need to realise the One Brahman
which is omnipresent.
960.
G: That is right.
But how is that realisation ever to be achieved?
961.
S: Does not
advaita hold the view that you need only to remove your ignorance in order for
the Realisation to spark?
962.
G: Yes, like the
story of the ‘tenth man’ thought as lost, but it is actually yourself; for you missed to count
yourself !
963.
S: Is it
therefore a question of sparking of the Truth from within?
964.
G: True. But that
sparking needs a crystal clear mind with no spots – and, the Grace of God!
965.
S: Which means,
without bhakti,
we’ll never see the end of samsAra?
966.
G: Certainly. It
is by bhakti,
says the Lord, you come to know Me as I am, what I am
and Who I am.
967.
S: Yes, I know
how it ends: And knowing Me in real terms, you
straightaway enter into Me.
968.
G:Yes. However one may
contemplate into His mystery, His greatness and true nature are known only by
His Grace.
969.
S: But then,
there is this great debate about what is the correct route – Bhakti
or jnAna?
970.
G: That is not
the great debate about. The debate is about whether the path of jnAna
admits or needs bhakti.
971.
S: I don’t see
the point of the debate. How can a divine goal admit of a path which denies faith in that
divinity?
972.
G: You have
understood rightly. Nor can faith in that divinity deny a path that seeks a knowledge of the goal.
973.
S: In other
words, whether it is the Bhakti path or the jnAna path, both needs the other.
974.
G: The debate
arises because Shankara has said many times: Moksha is only by Realisation of
the Ultimate.
975.
S: Shankara
himself was a great devotee, with temple worship, stotras and all!
976.
G: Great advaita
preceptors like Madhusudana Saraswati and Appayya Dikshidar have also been
ardent devotees.
977.
S: There is not a
single propagator of advaita who is not also a strong devotee of God.
978.
G: So let us wind up now with a
famous shAnti-mantra.
“saha nau avatu” - Let us be protected together.
979.
S: This certainly
is an
expression of total surrender to the Supreme.
980.
G: “saha nau bhunaktu”
–Let us enjoy together. What would you interpret this as?
981.
S: I am not
clear, Guruji, please help me!
982.
G: Well, remember
the last shloka
of the 11th chapter of the Gita?
983.
S: The Lord says
there: Be engaged in works for Me, Have Me as your refuge and so on; then you
shall reach Me.
984.
G: Why not say
the rest : “mad-bhaktas-sanga-varjitaH;
nirvairas-sarva-bhUteshhu ...”
985.
S: Be My devotee;
Be clear of all attachments; Have no hate of any
being.
986.
G: I reminded you
of this shloka
because this one
shloka
is the summum bonum of all spiritual teaching.
987.
S: And therefore
of the entire Gita. Right?
988.
G: Yes. There are
five advices here. Each is a major teaching of the Gita. And they exhaust the
Gita.
989.
S: I understand
four of them. But how does the “No hate” advice get classified as a major
teaching of the Gita?
990.
G: Because total
absence of hate can come only by an equanimous view of things.
991.
S: And is that the brahma-bhAva
of the Gita?
992.
G: Yes, of
course.
993.
S: Why did you
bring this up when we were on the “sahanAvavatu” shAnti mantra?
994.
G: Good question.
There are five sentences in that shAntimantra also. And there is a beautiful
correspondence!
995.
S: Let me see. “sa ha nAvavatu”:
This talks of protection and so
corresponds to “Have Me as refuge” in the shloka.
996.
G: “sa ha nau bhunaktu”
talks of enjoyment. Enjoyment is only in the Worship of the Lord. So ...
997.
S: It corresponds
to “Be My devotee” in the shloka of the Gita.
998.
G: Now let us
come to “saha
vIryaM karavAvahai”.
999.
S: Let us share
our power together, Let us work together.
1000.
G: This is Working one’s svadharma without any self-interest.
1001.
S: So it
corresponds to “Be engaged in Works for Me” of the shloka.
1002.
G: “tejasvina-avadhItamastu”.
This is about education. Let our experience be bright.
1003.
S: This must
correspond to the Yoga-sAdhanA part of the shloka, namely “Be clear of all attachments”.
1004.
G: You said it
right. Unless we do our works in a detached fashion productivity would not be
optimal.
1005.
S: Finally “mA vidvishAvahai” : Let us not hate.
1006.
G: Clearly this
corresponds to “Have
no hate of any being” of the shloka.
1007.
S: Wonderful,
Guruji, My PraNAms.
1008.
Guru and Shishhya
(together):
Copyright
© V.
Krishnamurthy
Back to Homepage Back to Contents Back to TOP of
page